I’ve read several times recently – on the Internet, of course! – that the Order of Nine Angles is defunct. Do you have any comment to make about this?
A: If people wish to believe that, fine.
All I will say is that – for many decades now – our membership has been closed. That is, we have not actively and publicly saught to recruit members. We are not interested in large numbers of people joining us, and we have placed many obstacles in the way of people contacting us. The few that do and have joined us are selected by us if we perceive they have the right qualities and if they have been tenacious in their search, and passed the various tests which are part of the selection process, with these tests being mostly unknown to them at the time they are being tested. Such tests, by us, continue until they have achieved, for themselves, Internal Adept.
Thus, we are elitist, and secretive. For the moment, and for the past few years or so, we have and have had a slight “public profile” – with an unofficial Internet website and an unofficial “Internet blog”, run by a member – but these things are temporary, serving a specific CausalTime-limited purpose, and when that purpose is achieved then they, and this slight public profile, will cease. Of course, we will not make any announcement of this ceasing, at the time.
It should be understood that our goals are of not only decades but of centuries, and that we act, and plan, accordingly.
What about the people who leave – or who seem to leave? I’m thinking of people like Vilnius Thornian, who ran the old Nasz Dom website, and C Beest, who did the Sinister Tarot. Have they really left, and if so is that a betrayal, and what does their leaving say about the state of the Order of Nine Angles itself and its method of training?
The question itself reveals something of a lack of esoteric insight and sinister knowledge.
Over the decades, several people have come and gone – some only achieved External Adept; a few achieve Internal Adept. Of those who wander away, and give up or renounce their Sinister quest, one or two return, having learnt much – about themselves – during their exile.
Yet some of those who wander away or who may renounce their quest may still have done some useful work; may still have presenced the Sinister in some way, and thus have contributed something, or affected some changes, however small. Some of these may even have been manipulated into doing such things, into contributing such things, by a Master, or a Mistress, with their leaving or their renunciation a sign of their failure.
For such renunciations – whatever the reasons, or the reasons such people tell themselves – are expected, and indeed natural; part of the selection process itself. Those who go have failed, and proven themselves unsuitable; for the real, and the most important test, is that which lies beyond Internal Adept and which signifies the change from Adept to Master/Mistress. Of those who thus progress beyond the Abyss, there have been no renunciations.
Each Grade, of Internal Magick, is thus a test, a selection; and the move away from each Grade toward the next is also itself a test, a selection, and one which lasts many an alchemical season – in exoteric-speak, which lasts for some or often many many years.
Again, such people, such failures, should be viewed in the perspective of centuries: of the progression toward our Sinister goals, our disruption of the Old Order, our presencings of the acausal darkness, and the emergence of the New Aeon, whose Sinister magickal energies are already being felt, by some, and whose exoteric affects are slowly causing causal changes.
There has been much speculation as to your use of the word “Fayen”, which seems to have replaced the “yf” date code you previously used. Is there a reason for this change, and what does Fayen mean? Is the change in any way connected with a move away from NS type politics, which politics many associate you with?
Firstly, the use of that particular word, now and in the past two or so years, is quite deliberate: to mark the beginning of the third stage of one particular, and century-long, strategy of ours.
The first part was the codification of what it may be convenient to call “The Mythos of the ONA”. This involved the writing down of the various aural traditions inherited from the reclusive Mistress who hailed from Shropshire, and who owned properties in London, Oxford and Manchester. These traditions involved such things as Esoteric Chant, The Septenary Tree of Wyrd, legends and myths about The Dark Gods and Baphomet; culling, various ceremonial rituals, and the Grade Rituals. It also involved refining and extending the Tradition itself – developing The Star Game, for example, and writing basic guides such as Naos. This stage took around a decade or so.
The second stage was, internally, making most of the exoteric Tradition available by circulating a limited number of copies of various ONA MSS, and works such as The Black Book of Satan, and Naos. This created something of a “public profile” for the ONA, which was intentional. Externally, the real work of the ONA was continued by presencing the acausal, the Sinister, through supporting, and creating, various causal “forms”, through opening various nexions, through practical de-stabilization, through propagating and championing various “heretical” causes and ideas, and so on: to the greater glory of Satan, one might have said, and say. This stage took around two decades, or so.
The third stage involves, internally, releasing items and MSS concerning some of the more esoteric aspects, which esoteric aspects include such things as: (1) the actual nature of The Dark Gods, hinted at in stories such as In The Sky of Dreaming and MSS such as The Mythos of the Dark Gods: Beings of Acausal Darkness; (2) The Seventh-Way, and the nature of Five-Dimensional Magick (hinted at in some earlier MSS, which mentioned some of the effects of a-temporal magickal rites; (3) the reality of The Abyss and beyond, where one goes beyond words, and causal symbols, such as the Tree of Wyrd, and thus beyond the opposites inherit in words, names and symbologies.
Outwardly, or externally, the third stage involves continuing to presence The Dark Forces, via nexions, through supporting, and creating, various causal “forms”; through practical de-stabilization, through supporting and championing various “heretical” causes and ideas, and so on: to the greater glory of Baphomet, one might, with correctness, say, and write.
After this – in future decades – as the signs of the de-stabilization of the Old Order (symbolized outwardly by the so-called, and mis-named, “New World Order”) becomes ever more esoterically obvious and then even more exoterically obvious, there will that conjoining that can be symbolized, exoterically, by the union of Satan and Baphomet, and thus a bringing-into-being (a birthing) of what is Beyond: the acausal Darkness itself, fully presenced on Earth and in our causal Universe. To the greater glory of The Dark Gods, and thus the beginning of our own evolutionary change into a new species.
Thus are some esoteric truths here revealed – for the sagacious.
Furthermore, NS-type politics – as explained many times over the years – was and is used as a form, as a presencing (even sometimes as a nexion) by Sinister Initiates and Sinister Adepts as part of Sinister Aeonic strategy, as a work or works of Aeonic magick (or even as an individual Insight Rôle). It it never was, nor is, the essence of the ONA, or the Way of the ONA: which is essentially to create, to breed, individual individuals and thence a new type of human being. Such individuals have gone beyond the abstractions, the forms, of the Old Aeon, and thus can – if necessary – use and manipulate such abstractions, such forms (be they conventionally described as political or religious, or whatever), in a Sinister, magickal Way: to presence the Dark Forces.
That many people did not understand this, reveals only the lack of understanding of those people. That many so-called esoteric Initiates did not and do not understand this, reveals only their lack of Initiated understanding, their lack of knowledge of genuine Magick, and of what it means to be a genuine follower of the Sinister Path.
You have stated – in the recently issued ONA Glossary – that the term Traditional Satanism, which now is in widespread use, was coined by the ONA. Is this correct, and does this mean, as some have supposed, a “worship” or reverence of Satan, as a real entity?
It is correct to say and write that we were the first to use that particular term, over two decades ago, for the reason given: because of our inherited aural Tradition, and to differentiate our really Dark and really Sinister Way from others, such as the the gabbling posturing ToSers, the Magian-inspired crawling Crowleyites, and the sanctimonious egotists who fawned upon and followed the Magian clown named LaVey.
To understand Satan – sans Nazarene theology and ontology, and the silliness of “theism” – is to understand that He is one of The Dark Gods and thus, according to our Tradition, our Mythos, an acausal-being, dwelling in the acausal Universe, Who has, at one or more times in our Earth-bound causal past, been presenced in causal form, which form can change, since Satan is, like most of that particular acausal species when manifest in the causal Universe, a shapeshifter.
Yet there is, for us and others of our Sinister kind, no worship of such a being; no reverence. Just an admiration, at most, and a feeling of kinship, such as one might have toward an older brother, or sister, or a respected and older if distant relative. Or rather, and more correctly perhaps, such as a desire, such a yearning,for, the kinship of a long-lost half-brother, or half-sister, given that – for many – such relatives of ours have been missing for rather a long time.
Thus – and to continue the metaphor – do Sinister Initiates seek to find such missing relatives of theirs, and thus do they desire to not only have them “home” again (presenced on Earth) but also to learn from them so that they themselves can pass to the stars, and beyond: into the realms of the formless, timeless, acausal.
So you still regard yourselves as “Satanists” and still regard the term “Satanism” as having esoteric meaning?
Yes, and yes. Greek scholars – and lexicographers – will understand what -ism (and thus -ist) in this context refers to.
Although, of course, “Satan-ism” is only a beginning: a nexion to the acausal itself; one causal and exoteric name for a particular presencing which can begin a particular, and dangerous and difficult, journey for some humans, to some-where.
I also refer you to my previous answer: the Third Stage, and what is beyond.
You mean Baphomet, whom you describe as a Dark Goddess?
Indeed, for She is The Mistress, The Mother, of Blood; of our blood, and of the blood of those who are sacrificed to her, for her, and who can provide Her with some of the causal living necessary.
Furthermore – and here is another clue – one must view both Vindex and Falcifer in relation to Her, and, of course, that acausal being whose exoteric name has been given as Satan.
Since you accept Satan as a real being, what about God? Do you accept there is a God?
No. We consider “God” to be a myth, an abstraction, a metaphysical construct if you will, created by the need and the desire of individuals who have not only yet to face, understand, and integrate, the darkness, within themselves, but who also – from weakness, inability or whatever – cannot go beyond such abstractions, such immature bifurcation into non-living “opposites”, to the esoteric quintessence, which is of the numinosity of the a-causal Sinister imbued with the essence and the potential of causal life and causal living. Thus, “God” – as conventionally described – is a symptom of the human disease of negative-evolution, which is an un-knowing, an un-feeling, of our human potential, which potential can be unleashed by the energies of the acausal.
In the same way, the kindred disease of hubris, the disease of the modern materialistic West, is an outward manifestation of the still current Old Aeon – the Magian-inspired and Magian-controlled Old Order – and of those Aeons that preceded it. Hubris – selfish, blind, ill-disciplined indulgence and egotistical arrogance – is a lack of self-awareness; a lack of self-discipline; a pandering to the ego and its delusions; a lack of esoteric insight; a lack of that perspective, that self-judgement, that rational detachment, that awareness and practical experience of the acausal – of The Dark Gods, of Satan and Baphomet – creates. Or at least can create in those possessed of the right character, the correct attributes.
Thus do we seek the practical destruction of this Old Order, which keeps people in thrall, stifles our potential, and which becomes ever more oppressive and tyrannical with every passing year. This destruction is necessary – whatever the cost in so-called “human suffering” – for such destruction is a prelude to the New Aeon which will unleash our full potential and enable us to become a new, and higher, species.
You do not therefore accept that there is such a thing as an “innocent person”?
Here is a quote from a now somewhat old essay of mine, which is relevant here:
“There is no such thing as an innocent person because everyone who exists is part of the whole, the change, the evolution, the presencing of life itself, which is beyond them, and their life only has meaning through the change, development and evolution of life. Their importance is what they can become, or what can be achieved through their death. their tragedy, their living – their importance does not lie in their individual happiness or their individual desires or whatever.” To Presence The Dark
But I still expect the full meaning suggested by the above words will escape the vast majority of human beings, including the vast majority who call themselves, or describe themselves as, “Satanists” – which of course reveals quite a lot about such self-styled “Satanists”, just as the very title of that particular ONA MS, quoted above, reveals quite a lot about us.
Order of Nine Angles
119 Year of Fayen
Screenshot of the article from wayback-machine Jan 2009 ev: